Animal Rights Activism

[Jen]

How far do you believe animal rights activists should be allowed to go? PETA has women strip naked in public because they "wouldn't be caught dead in fur." Another group throws acid at Japanese whaling ships (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804368a12.html). Other activists throw red paint on expensive fur coats to symbolise blood. It is, of course, in the name of a cause these people really believe in. They believe animals should have more rights than they are currently given.

But how far is too far? Should they get away with destroying people's coats? Endangering whalers by throwing acid that could disfigure them? Or even public nudity that wouldn't be tolerated in any other name?

[Angel]

Nudity, I couldn't care less about. Society is far too uptight about naked bodies.
Rad paint, I don't really care about either. But I'm not a very materialistic person.
The acid I do have a problem with.

[Kirtan]

Originally posted by Jen
Or even public nudity that wouldn't be tolerated in any other name?

is there any country besides america that still gets itself so haughty over nudity?

[Vincent]

what about the little boy trying to ban nude beaches.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Kirtan
is there any country besides america that still gets itself so haughty over nudity?

If you got naked in public without any political motivation, I'm sure the Gestapo New Zealand Police would find some reason to lock you up.

[Angel]

Honestly, it sounds like North Island cops are way worse than South Island cops.

[jimmy]

The "acid" Sea Shepherds throw is just rancid butter. Smells really bad and makes the deck treacherous. Not exactly something that is flaying the skin off of some poor Japanese whalers.

I don't care about public nudity.

Red paint is vandalism, if not assault. If someone wants to do that, they should be prepared to pay to replace the coat.

The only one I find to be in a gray area is the anti-whaling group. Considering the Japanese perform their whaling activities with dubious legality, it seems fitting Sea Shepherd operates in a similar legal gray area.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Angel
Honestly, it sounds like North Island cops are way worse than South Island cops.

You're telling me that if I walked naked through Cathedral Square for no reason at all whatsoever, and a cop saw me, he'd do nothing? I don't believe it.

[Jen]

Originally posted by jimmy
The "acid" Sea Shepherds throw is just rancid butter. Smells really bad and makes the deck treacherous. Not exactly something that is flaying the skin off of some poor Japanese whalers.

I don't care about public nudity.

Red paint is vandalism, if not assault. If someone wants to do that, they should be prepared to pay to replace the coat.

The only one I find to be in a gray area is the anti-whaling group. Considering the Japanese perform their whaling activities with dubious legality, it seems fitting Sea Shepherd operates in a similar legal gray area.

Haha, I agree completely on the red paint.

I don't fully understand what vandalising coats on a small scale accomplishes, though. Sure, it drums up support from the cause if people are inclined to agree with it in the first place, but it does nothing to actually make kiling animals for fur illegal, which is their goal, no?

Same thing for throwing rancid butter? Why not photograph what these whalers are doing and try to get it made illegal.

[Angel]

...it IS illegal. The whalers do it anyway.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Jen
You're telling me that if I walked naked through Cathedral Square for no reason at all whatsoever, and a cop saw me, he'd do nothing? I don't believe it.

Not at all. I just dislike you calling all New Zealand cops Nazis and implying they're all corrupt when every dealing I've ever had with them has been fine. I have some good friends who are cops, and it pisses me off to hear people smearing their names. Obviously you guys have had some bad experiences, but don't assume that all cops are assholes.
Walking naked through Cathedral Square is breaking the law, and thus if I did so, I'd expect to be arrested.
Remember that a lot of the time the cops are just doing their jobs. They don't make the laws.

[jimmy]

The problem with the whalers is that what they do is against international law, but it's unclear who actually has the right to enforce it.

To take a complex subject and pare it down as simply as possible: international waters are de facto lawless. There is no police force arresting pirates, illicit whalers, or groups like Sea Shepherd. The open sea can be a very dangerous place for that reason. There are no cops to call to your rescue if you get into trouble.

[Vincent]

Originally posted by Angel
Not at all. I just dislike you calling all New Zealand cops Nazis and implying they're all corrupt when every dealing I've ever had with them has been fine. I have some good friends who are cops, and it pisses me off to hear people smearing their names. Obviously you guys have had some bad experiences, but don't assume that all cops are assholes.
Walking naked through Cathedral Square is breaking the law, and thus if I did so, I'd expect to be arrested.
Remember that a lot of the time the cops are just doing their jobs. They don't make the laws.

stop trying to make this into something its not, the cops in this part of the country dont follow the law therefore they cease to be legitimate cops and become a gang.

me and jen both know that the cops in the upper echelon of new zealand are much friendlier, much nicer people, problem is, theres no way we can live in the cities because its so expensive.

[Vincent]

oh and also jen wasnt the one who called them nazis, i was.

if it makes you feel better i can stop refering to the gang of men with badges and beating sticks around here as cops, from this point on they are

"Destroyers Of Our Freedom and Sanity."

DOOFS for the sake of keeping it simple.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Jen
I'm sure the Gestapo New Zealand Police

[Vincent]

:rolleyes:

she posted that in a thread entitled "Nazi Zealand" that i started, you seem to be deliberately targeting her, and i assume the reason behind this is because you dont think she has the right to talk bad about the police here.

even though shes married to a citizen and actually lives here and has done for 4 years :confused:

[Angel]

I'm not targetting her at all. My post was directed at both of you, and the only reason i quoteed that was because you said that she didn't say they were Nazis...
Gee, now who's trying to turn this into something it's not?

[Vincent]

once again, she posted in a thread that i made titled nazi zealand. and from how terrified she was about being treated like a dog i think its safe to say that what she said about it is in relation to the fact that the DOOF bears a striking resemblance to the brown shirts.

i dont know whether your trying to deliberately start an argument or whether you dont realise it but like i said, its not something either of us want to debate.

[Angel]

...so why the fuck bring it up? Bascially, you want to be able to say whatever you like and have no one call you on it, right? too bad.

From what you guys say, you make it seem like NZ is this utter fucking shithole of a third world country that is over run by corrupt cops and crazy law enforcement. Sorry if I feel the need to defend my country a little.

If you read the things I've written, it's quite clear i'm not trying to start an argument at all. You're the one who's getting butthurt over things you're mistakenly reading into my posts.

I really think you're over reacting to this, a bit.

[Vincent]

*lol*

[Vincent]

not to mention its been said 3 times now, this is the way it is here. where we are, you know, not where you are?

things are very good in certain parts of new zealand, but in the places where its bad, its really bad.

[Angel]

I haven't said otherwise. Like I said, I just don't like the way all cops seem to be being lumped into this.

[Vincent]

ok 5th time now, no more will i refer to them as cops, they dont follow the laws set for the police so therefore they arent policemen. they are DOOFS. and will probably always be Doofs unless they decide to move someplace nicer.